What is almost never acknowledged in these casual conversations is that the D20 rules I've seen alway have a "Massive Damage" clause in them - that DM's never use - that attempt to stop runaway damage-proofing.
The Massive Damage clause basically says that if a character, NPC or monster sffers a blow that deals X amount of hit points (HP), he, she or it is taken to -10 hit opints and declared dead (there are game mechanics that can mean this is subtly different from just-plain-dead which are irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion). For example: the Conan D20 rules system puts this value at 20 HP lost in a single blow.
Now the argument for using this rule is fairly straightforward: It makes any game character killable no matter how many HP they have in the bank. Players cannot rely on the fact that they have reached 22nd level to save them from that pipsqueak 5th level fighter.
The argument against is also self-evident: it is monstrously unfair that the game system basis it's progression on levels and the attendant HP's, acknowledges that these are a powerful incentive to seek or avoid combat by giving different character classes different dice for the purpose - a barbarian might get d12 per level but a priest d6 - and rates the challenge each monster poses in hit dice (not, you should note, hit points) should seek to "level the playing field" in this way, setting a 22nd level barbarian general up for a death at the hands of a relative neophyte, especially if that barbarian general is a player with months of invested play-time in the character and campaign.
I sit squarely in the middle of this debate. On the one hand I, as a DM, do not want to have to deal with arcade game style escalation in HP with all the bookwork to tweak challenges accordingly, but as a player I see no earthly justification - outside of the godlike being issue - in setting an arbitrary "20 points and you're dead" level of damage.
My instincts here are that some sort of massive damage limitation is desirable, if only to promote less "Doom" - style gaming (while at the same time acknowledging the fun to be had doing that sort of game) and encourage a more "realistic" play style, but that it should be somehow scaled appropriately. This is how the issue is dealt with in BRP-sourced games like Call of Cthulhu.
I'm thinking that something of the following type might fit the bill and not annoy too many people to the point they won't play:
- When a character or monster takes 50% of its current remaining Hit Points in a single blow, it must make a Fortitude save. Saving will cause the character to be unaffected (other than the physical damage of course). Failing the save will cause it to become Staggered. The Save must be made each round or the character will remain staggered (able only to make move or standard actions)
- When a character takes 75% of its current HP in one blow it must make a Fortitude save. Making the save will result in the character becoming staggered until a second Fortitude save is made (in a subsequent round). Failuer to save will cause the character to be stunned until a subsequent Fortitude save can be made. Stunned players may not take actions but are not entirely helpless.
- If a character loses more than 75% of its HP in one blow it must make a Fortitude save. Success means the character is stunned until a subsequent Fortitude save can be made. Failure means the character is knocked unconscious, and is Helpless.
- Additional Fortitude saves may be made, one in each subsequent round, to work the character's state "up the ladder": Normal---Staggered---Stunned---KO'd
- This rule does not override the other effects of the received damage. Dead is still dead.
This is just a first cut at a vague idea. I welcome comments for, against and sideways (provided we always move the debate in an on-topic direction).
7 comments:
Well, _I_ didn't know about that rule, and based on how we played a "gun to the head" scene a few years ago I would wager that the D20 Modern GM didn't either. It certainly would have removed the stupidity of saying that a point blank shot to the neck does triple damage, but still doesn't kill the victim.
I like the adaptation of the BRP CON roll mechanism rather a lot, and I think the staging of the debilitating effects is good too. Indeed, it makes me want to fine tune the BRP effects a bit.
One suggestion is to include some relationship to the original hit point total in the severity of the effect: if you are at a fraction of your base HP total, then losing 50% of your current hit points seems more likely to Stun than Stagger.
Another question is whether you would apply this rule for non-humanoid characters ("the dragon is stunned!"). I have always considered the BRP shock rules to be inapplicable to non-humans, since their physiology is unknowably different.
I should say that Mythos non-humans are in possession of unknowably different physiology, rather than non-human creatures in general fantasy settings.
I like the base HP total idea, as that would scale it up to larger and larger creatures, though it does tend to lessen the chance of a lower level character getting that lucky shot.
Jrs
[Dunx, mostly] The rule I am buggering about with, and I should have made this *absolutely* clear, is specifically for heroic fantasy gaming such as D&D and Conan. It would not be at all satisfactory for Call of Cthulhu or for the Modern situation you cite. At least, not from where I'm sitting.
[Dunx, mostly, addendum] The issue with original hit point total is, under D20, something of a bum steer. Think of HP in terms of SAN in Call of Cthulhu and you get closer to what the designers want: The physical manifestation of your wounds is specific to the attack that inflicted them (severed limbs, split skulls and so forth) whereas one's Hip Point total at any one time merely reflects how much more damage the character can take without being deaded. Just as one point of SAN indicates a fully sane (but radically unstable) character, so one hit point left from an original total of 50 or so indicates nothing about the haleness of the combatant.
I know it feels wrong to a BRP player, but that's how the game has mutated over the years and I kinda see the point. While a large hit point loss in a single attack most definitely should be interpreted as indicating some severe wound infliction, the overall remaining total says nothing about the character other than how near death he or she is.
Sorry for rambling. THoughts a bit disorganised on this issue, hence the post.
So, what is needed then is some sort of sliding scale of effects, that may be ignored on a succesful CON roll, rolled at the start of anything strenuous. (failure would be a reopening of wounds... sutures etc). You can even use the hit locations in this (big wound to the arm - broken bones, to the head - possible concussion)
Then use a scale of stunned, staggered, knocked down, etc based on current hit points, rather than original.
This has something to say on the subject I still think a scaled approach has more to recommend it than a blanket plucked-from-the-air amount (Conan sets the MD level at 20 HP, D&D sets it at 50 HP). I'm also against killing outright in a fantasy/S&S setting, as we are talking Heroic Fiction modes and the seemingly invincible (albeit always threatened) character is the meat and spuds of that genre. Look at Conan. If SF is your thing, look at Dumarest. It is implicit in the contract bewteen the author and the reader that no matter how tough things get, things will have to become exceptionally bad for the hero to die the real death (Google Jack of Shadows by Zelazny, then buy it and read it for the reference). Our players are heroes or anti-heroes, several cuts above yer common man or woman. Besides, rolling up new characters then levelling them to the campaign minimum takes so bloody *long* in D20. :o)
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